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Memories Of Multicolored Light


I am now 32 and I have been blessed by many life-altering experiences in my life. And I say life-altering because up until a few months ago I could not even utter myself saying the word spiritual and me in the same sentence. I have a big aversion to using terms like awakening or spirituality or God since these words are so often abused for power and profit. I consider myself a woman of science and highly educated, always looking for scientific explanations. But as of late I can no longer deny that I have had many spiritual experiences and awakenings. Slowly but surely I'm trying to come out of my spiritual-closet so to speak. I hope that someday soon I'll find the courage to share what I know with all my loved ones.

My first awakening was at the age of 15 when I was sitting on my balcony secretly smoking a cigarette. As I was staring at the night sky and the trees and this overwhelming feeling of oneness with the universe came over me. I knew right then and there that everything was all right and love. I saw the waving branches of the trees and I was them and I felt it, I was the stars I was everything and everywhere and we all were connected. I was in this heightened state of awareness. Other people on this site have described this feeling of oneness so accurately, and I'm terrible with words so I'll just leave it at this. This experience of oneness was so profound that it changed the way I looked at the world forever. I don't want to come across as an egomaniac because I'm all for letting go of the ego, but this experience gave me an edge on my peers. I never worried again what others might think of me cause that didn't have any meaning at all. I can go on forever about the implications of this experience. I just wish everyone would experience this at least once. I will even go so far as to say it was more profound than the birth of my first child. I know not to worry everything is perfect even though it's hard to remember I always try and force myself to be creative with the situation so I can see the perfection and the love.

But as I'm typing I remember another experience I had about a year before at the age of 14. It was a stressful time for me and I was very depressed, so much so that one day I was preparing myself to kill myself the next day. I was cleaning my room, picking out the clothes I wanted to wear in my casket and writing a goodbye letter. I was preparing for my death when all of a sudden out of nowhere my old cassette player was turned on and it started playing this interview with a girl saying: "Please don't kill yourself, don't do it, just don't". This was a tape recording from a Nirvana tribute radio show I recorded months earlier and it started playing by itself. I was across the room when it was switched on. This girl was begging to Kurt Cobain to not have killed himself but unfortunately he never got to hear her message. But I did... And I never tried to kill or harm myself again.

Oh boy I really got a little carried away there, but I'm basically here to talk about something else. Something so out of this world. I have googled and never have I come across a similar memory. A loved one was dying but I was so comforted by this memory and it gave so much peace. I didn't even recall this memory until I 'needed'? It which is around the time I heard he was dying. I'm 100% sure it's not a false or created memory but then again I'm not even sure if it was (just) a dream I had, maybe an NDE? I have no idea. The memory is there and its very vivid, comforting and very important.

I remember being in a space surrounded with light but the light isn't white it's multi-coloured. I am that light, I am the geometrical shapes in the light, no wait. The light, it's everything that was and will be, everyone, everything yet nothing is in it. I see my grandmother I see my uncle's spirit (they are still alive) We have something together. I can't recall what but we are here for something. I chose this. I'm here by my own choice. The feeling of peace and calm is overwhelming much more profound than my experience of the oneness. I'm at peace but I am the peace, I'm the love, I know all.

Per chance (as if...) I found out that my mother has a similar memory. We never discuss spiritual things, but this just came up. She talked about a light and my grandmothers and uncles spirit too. I got real excited but I couldn't bring myself to tell her yet.

Lately I have been remembering more and more, and sometimes I feel so uplifted it's like as something is trying to reach out to me to grab my hands and pull my out of myself. It sounds weird, but it's not as psychotic as you might think hahaha. I'm only describing this as I'm desperate to find people with similar experiences so I can discuss them and learn more. Please contact me of you have similar experiences. Just thinking about my experiences gets me on a natural high of gratefulness. This life is such a gift.

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The following comments are submitted by users of this site and are not official positions by Please read our guidelines and the previous posts before posting. The author, kiani, has the following expectation about your feedback: I will participate in the discussion and I need help with what I have experienced.

NaturalScience (3 stories) (110 posts)
12 years ago (2012-02-20)
It is a Catholic legend which is very old. Catholics have a prayer ceremony, done mostly during the Fasting Time before Easter, in which the way of Christ from Court to Crucifixion and His dying on the Cross are remembered. This "Cross Path" ("Kreuzweg" in German) has fourteen "stations", and one of it is the scene of Veronica wiping off dirt of the face of Jesus carrying the Cross.
They call the cloth with which she does it a "sweat-cloth" - something like a handkerchief is imagined by ordinary European people.
But no one ever told or wrote that handkerchiefs were already in use in Antique Oriental regions!
Thus I when once meditating on Veronica's little help for the Saviour it came to my mind that, firstly, she must have resisted the guards for doing it, and secondly, where did she take the cloth from? It could not be a flap torn off of her clothing, this would have been too complicated. Too slow. Things must have been going on real fast then. A matter of seconds, as in Rescue Medicine.
Thus it must have been - her woman's headcloth, or veil! And at once the whole scene played off before my inner eye the way I described it, and I recognized her as an utterly courageous woman throwing off conventional prejudices for the sake of Charity. A Punk of God. This she was in that moment.
Gerry (1 stories) (11 posts)
12 years ago (2012-02-19)
Naturalscience, I have never heard of St Veronica who did this action.
The only ones I have known was a man who carried the cross for a little distance for Christ, and a woman that wiped the face of Christ.
Can you direct me to a genuine article about her?

Thanks ❤
Foundations (1 stories) (64 posts)
12 years ago (2012-02-19)
Hello NaturalScience,

I had never heard about this wonderful woman before! She did indeed show a selfless act of love and I am glad that you shared this with us. Let us all learn from this story and share in her courage!

NaturalScience (3 stories) (110 posts)
12 years ago (2012-02-19)
To you Kathleen the story of true love is that about Maria Magdalena. I got a very similar favourite story which is about Christ and Saint Veronica (this is my first name in real life). It is not in the Bible but all Catholics know it. I imagine it to have happened as follows:
Veronica was some ordinary Jewish Mom in Jerusalem who probably was shopping for Passah when she saw the rows of guards at the edges of the street which always were there when a criminal was led out for execution and curious as she was - as all women are - she looked out who was the criminal today, and then with some shock she saw it was that same good Rabbi whom she had heard preach some days ago... Why was he led through the streets as a criminal? And how badly ws he treated! Gosh, he even had a crown of thorns upon head and dirt and blood run into his eyes so he could hardly find his way and walk, under that heavy cross he was carrying... She saw all this peering through between the guards and then - she perhaps said later she must have lost her reason for a moment and she did not know why she was still alive after this rash action... - then she PUSHED AWAY TWO GUARDS WITH HER ELBOWS and THREW HERSELF BEFORE THE RABBI AND TORE OFF HER HEADCLOTH to wipe off the blood and dirt so he could see again. See what she did? It was much the same as it would have been in Islamist Afghanistan. To tear off one's headcloth in the public, as an adult woman, was like stripping oneself naked... It was scandalous. Moreover, she had shown resistance to the Police!
But that Roman Military Police, as it seems, did not take her for serious enough to arrest or batter her, and so she suffered no harm.
And Our SAviour, whom she had tried to help a little by throwing off her cultural embarrassment schemes, so the story ends, made an image of His Holy Face remain in the headcloth she had stripped off; and this cloth, it is said, still exists to-day as a Holy Relic in an European Cathedral.
God give all of us St Veronica's Civilian Courage!
Foundations (1 stories) (64 posts)
12 years ago (2012-02-19)
Hello David,

I was elated when I read your response to me! I went to sleep last night feeling a sense of calm and peace that I could not get over. My prayer is that everyone can love the way Mary did. Simply love one another, no need for words and no explanation required.

I have been asking truth from the holy spirit, and have many visions and love songs played for me. I don't know what is going on. A friend had told me to trust the truth of the holy spirit, yet I find myself unsure if this could be the truth, or if I have it all wrong?...

My most recent vision was that I was in a croud and suddenly Jesus appeared, and I knew who he was immediately. For some reason he swooped me up and hung me upside down. I remember feeling hurt and rejected as the others in the croud laughed, and wondering "Jesus how can you do this to me?" But as quickly as those feelings came to my being, they left me. Jesus took it all away, and I knew I would be OK. And then we were gone...

Onawingandaprayer (30 posts)
12 years ago (2012-02-19)
NatrualScience...and many others!

So what are you and the billions pining for the ACTUAL Kingdom on Earth doing about it to bring it forth?

Are you just sitting back and wallowing in pity over how bad things are, pouring your energy into perpetuating the problems, yearning for bliss and haven't given much thought about how to acheive it!

"What can one person do against the wretched people who run this planet?"

"My life sucks, who are you to say this to me?!?!?!?"

"I have no money, how can I change things?"

"My husband will beat me if I speak my mind"

"Easy for you to preach over cyberspace, you are not at the coal-face!"

"What makes you so special!"

You are all saying, millions of us are saying the same things every day.

No you can't prevent many things that happen in this world, yet, but how was it that in countries that not so long ago were ruled by ruthless dictators and now the people are seeing a glimmer of hope for the future.

They asked for change in THEIR own way...

It may not be happening quite to our WESTERN standards or liking, but then again who says the western way...

If you needed still more proof, look at what is still happening in Syria, everyday the innocent are butchered, much like the christians in the arena, or the Christian crusades of the Holyland which left a trail of death and destruction still enduring in the hearts and minds of muslims in the Middle East to this very day. Everyday people just wish to express there human freedoms, sounds like the Isrealites under Roman rule doesn't it.

Yet within every generation a small voice is heard that does change things. Some will argue life is no better now than it was 2000 years ago, I beg to differ, for if you cannot see it then you really do have your eyes closed.

The souls of many are on pathways we cannot envisage or even comprehend why. Why does a newborn baby suffer so much only to die within days of the miracle of life we call birth.

A friend of mine said to me; "don't try to apply human logic or understanding to the journey of the soul, it is way beyond us"

He was correct in many ways and thinking about that makes it easier, not pleasant at times, but easier to understand and cope with things that go on daily in this region of the world I currently live in.

All we are asked to do is simple, to have the joy of the Kingdom here on earth WE AS HUMANS MUST CHANGE OOUURR WAY OF THINKING ABOUT EACH OTHER.

The Arab/Israeli conflict can be solved, but it will take ONE very brave person to stand up and shout from the top of his or lungs ENOUGH!

All it takes is to change the life of ONE person, the snowball effect will takeover from there, that is all we need to do. If during the course of your life you manage to bring about the change to peace, love, respect, dignity, love of your fellow man, love of yourself, love of life, seeing the godness within another and having them see it and believe it as well.

If you can acheive this within yourself first, putting aside the humanly fears of insufficiency, social positioning, hatred, jealousy, vengence, exploitation, corruption, plotting, looking-down-upon another you deem less worthy. If you can look to the DAY, not at what happened yesterday or 2000 years ago, but today, tomorrow will sort itself out.

My brother-in-law had a serious accidnet many years ago and he has a very simple view of life now. They have very little money and yet he places his faith and trust in whomever he believes will provide. They always manage to pay their bills, put food on the table and take the occasional holiday.

He says he doesn't know where the money comes from, but when he needs it, it is there, he can't explain it, he just says it must be a form of heaven here on earth.

He is very much correct, he has changed his life by changing his view of life and his fellow man. Yes he still talks about the global situation but now with the eye of the "observer" and not the participant (for we are all particpants in one situation or another).

Billions on this planet are the participants and I believe in time that will all change, but it starts with just ONE person.

The snowball effect took root last November after what some beleived was the end of the mayan calender. It is beginning, will our generation see the results, maybe, maybe not, but that is okay the long journey has begun.

If you go to your death-bed knowing that at the end of the day you not only changed your own mind about life, but were able to help another, or cause another to stop and think about his or her own life, then you have had a succesful life.

A friend went to his bed very happy and content in the knowledge that despite all he endured in life, he was able to see another look at her life from a different perspective and see her move forward. She still struggles with some of lifes day to day issues, as we all do and will continue to do so, for that is life. I see her writing now and I know she has moved many steps closer to her own personal vision of the Kingdom within her.

If you measure your success by the number of buildings you own, well I guess that is okay for you. I prefer to see success in the form of the souls we can help move forward. For in this process, over time, human attitudes will change considerably and the CONCEPTS of the Kingdom of God will be firmly rooted within each of us, as well as on this physical plane and nothing will change that.

Have a great day, live large and enjoy everyday of this gift we call life, love, God

NaturalScience (3 stories) (110 posts)
12 years ago (2012-02-19)
Why a Kingdom of God on Earth? Because it is urgently needed. Hear the cry of kids unhappy, hungry, beaten. See the abused and exploited women all over world. BEhold the forests chopped off, the seas overfished, the overkill weaponry, and Fukushima exhaling death.
"If I did not speak, the stones would cry out" said Our Master Jesus. How could He be bound to leave this Earth in its miserable scrapyard state and build His kingdom only elsewhere? Remember we do not have the total of His teachings anymore, there has been much rewriting, deleting and faking during Church History. Of course it was comfortable for the Churches to make people think the Kingdom to be a mere Beyond affair. But all Christians who really made things better down here also believed in a future Kingdom down here - secretly at least!
Gerry (1 stories) (11 posts)
12 years ago (2012-02-18)
Hello my egotistical friends. Here is my view to, "what is ego".
Without ego we do not move forward but become stagnated.
So ego is good in this sense, but bad in the sense we feel we are better than them.
Ego gives us the need to compete and improve, this is good for progress.
But when the ego is bigger than us and it rules, we become blinded and have less feelings for others.
This is the simplicity of it.
Onawingandaprayer (30 posts)
12 years ago (2012-02-18)

Okay we agree to disagree, I see your path and am truly happy for you, may that journey be a fruitful one.

Just one question though, why do people continually seek the Kingdom here on earth. Even Jesus rebuked his disciples for thinking it was or ever will be an earthbound Kingdom, I guess this a question for the viewship-at-large whom visit these pages.

Have a great day

Onawingandaprayer (30 posts)
12 years ago (2012-02-18)
Hi Kathleen

Whenever I read the passage, listen to it being discussed and now in your telling, I always feel like I was there as a witness to the event as well.

Yes it took Great courage of Mary " who is this women?"

That same type of unconditional love of the Master was not seen again until Catherine of Sienna. I think it will be seen again, perhaps within our lifetime. If not then upon entry into the Father's Kingdom after leaving this physical existence.

Continue your amazing journey...

Foundations (1 stories) (64 posts)
12 years ago (2012-02-18)
Hello NaturalScience and friends

When I think about Ego, it brings me back to a familiar story in the bible. It is the story of Mary of Bethany anointing Jesus. A long time ago there was a man that she truly loved and she needed to show him how deeply she cared. This love may not have been looked upon as right in the eyes of her peers, but she herself demonstrated an act in which she was forced to let go of her ego. Mary went with the feelings that were contained in her heart instead of what her ego was telling her was "right" or "wrong". Her ego may have been telling her "Who do you think you are! You're not important enough, or smart enough, or pretty enough to anoint HIM! He's Jesus, you're only Mary! Not to mention the fact that you are a WOMAN!" But, regardless Mary simply put those thoughts aside and conquered them and acted out of unconditional love. Just imagine what she must have been feeling. She knew what the crowd would think of her - the negativity, the comments, the embarassment and humiliation, however within her she mustered the courage to prove her love for Jesus and to overcome her own "demeaning" thoughts about herself. She knew what was right in her heart and acted upon it regardless of the outcome. The love that she had for Jesus may have been viewed as "wrong" in the eyes of man, but she saw through it and only acted in the present moment regardless of the possible outcomes. And much to her delight her actions were praised by Jesus and their love and understanding of one another prevailed. They saw the bigger picture. Love has NO boundaries, it simply is and extends on and on. For me, if something feels right in YOUR heart and love has no boundaries, then who or what can say that it is right or wrong? The ego constantly tries to stop us from being who we are by imposing walls and boundaries.
NaturalScience (3 stories) (110 posts)
12 years ago (2012-02-18)
Be astounded which Random Quote showed up (I mean, at the right side of this web page) immediately after my posting the former!
It was this Holy Word of Jesus:
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
See how "coincidence" supported my last post?

And this little game even went on! The next quote that emerged at the same place was of Mahatma Gandhi whom I deeply revere and it read:
"A religion that does not care for practical things in daily life is no religion."

So let us go of Ego definitions, which seemingly are theoretical, or at least deal with states of mind which are not within our personal reach - they can be bestowed to us but not induced with any degree of certainty - and better meditate on the Commandments.
NaturalScience (3 stories) (110 posts)
12 years ago (2012-02-18)
Some ego definition from a Buddhist that showed up one minute ago as a Random Spiritual Quote is this:
"Ego could be defined as whatever covers up basic goodness. From an experiential point of view, what is ego covering up? It's covering up our experience of just being here, just fully being where we are, so that we can relate with the immediacy of our experience. Egolessness is a state of mind that has complete confidence in the sacredness of the world. It is unconditional well being, unconditional joy that includes all the different qualities of our experience."
Well, it is very desirable to have the state of mind described by the Buddhist teacher. But is it possible to keep within it over more than some minutes? Can anyone remain in "unconditional joy" who has just made a coffee for her guy, with love, and hears from him as the only reaction "you made it too strong, don't you know I got that stomach ache?" If someone can do so he or she is no longer a normal human but a Buddha - which is a kind of miracle.

Thus, can the State of Mind really be the central question in Spirituality? From my view, no. The central point is how to behave, how to do, in daily life, no matter if you feel sad or joyful, no matter if you are a knowing or an ignorant person. It is by the Law of Karma that we get into confusion about the truth, and it is by the Law of Karma that we gain a glimpse of the truth and that our knowledge grows. The miracle of egolessness was given to me for short periods of time. Afterwards I became an ordinary person again. This is only natural.
Gifts from the Spirit come and go. But Laws and Commandments remain.
NaturalScience (3 stories) (110 posts)
12 years ago (2012-02-18)
Onawingandaprayer, there is nothing to grapple with for me (or "my ego" whatever this part of my person may exactly be) in your answer about what God Is.
I know that HE/She/It is more real than me, for I am mortal which God is not. And I know God is Real - not some brain game made up by humans.
Formerly I had to believe that God exists... This blind believing phase was just a forerunner, thank God. If I still were in this stage I'd have no say ("When I was a kid, I thought the way kids do" says St Paul), and thus would not dare to write one single word on a spiritual WWW site.
It is not for my own path that I started the subject of Ego definition - my former comments in this thread clear up why.
Kiani surely understands that the Ego definition matter really has something to do with her report.
You too I think. It was no digression.
But now it is over for the moment and for this thread.

One guest here wrote "When I feel the truth I nearly think myself to be a fool for not feeling it always."
Welcome to the Club, sister! This is why we pray "Father Thy Kingdom come - Thy will be Done as in Heaven so on Earth."
Only when the Kingdom promised has come we will be free from that foolishness which is the everyday reality of almost all of us, even of Saints. Then the truth will be part of our normal feelings, without effort.
How often I wept bitter tears about this state myself I have forgotten. I can well imagine how ardently also my grand-aunt, that heroic little Franciscan nun, desired to feel the truth always. I once found her diary. It was full of quotations taken from Catholic Mystics who had fully realized God.
She did not feel the truth always, and I do not, and even James - I suppose - did not; for the Kingdom still has not realised itself on Earth. This is a fact but NOT our fault!
But she did all she could do to make it come nearer - within that blockhead frame to which we still are confined. And she taught me to do the same. If we fail to do the good that is within our hand's grasp it IS our fault.
Onawingandaprayer (30 posts)
12 years ago (2012-02-17)
Hello naturalScience

Well Kiani must be wondering what happened to the thread about the experience this all started with!

I can see you are on this pathway to discovering the what and why of the Ego, okay I see this is eating you up inside. If this is the case then seek your path and find your answer.

I can't give you one because the route of the ego plays only a minor part within me now and frankly it is of no consequence or issue to me now. I see life from a very different view point than I did even 6 months ago. Every now and then the ego will try to raise its' opinion, when I realize it I quickly move beyond it with other thoughts, hence no issue any more.

My friend discover your pathway to the definition of what you seek, then you may find in the end what many have already discovered.

Here is something for your ego to grapple with, I last asked you to define God.

Here is a basic answer:

God said "I am that I am"

Or simply put "God Is"

That statement is much more than a 2 word answer, a deeper understanding of this shows a much greater awareness of life, love and of course God. In the end this is all that matters...

NaturalScience (3 stories) (110 posts)
12 years ago (2012-02-16)
Dear friends, the definition I seek is really needed. It is not enough to find a definition for one's own - because most of us are not far advanced enough, well oriented enough to do so. Those who need a navigator in distinguishing right from wrong, as one uses in driving, could profit very much of an Ego definition usable for everybody. Even more because the word "Ego" is much used in so-called spiritual subculture TO DEMEAN oneself or others. A definition which prevents this would save many good-hearted persons of suffering and confusion.
But OK let us delay this question for the moment. Not because those are right who think "why strain my own brains for theological definitions, God will provide for that"... Such a train of thought does not show Trust in Providence but Yielding to Indolence;-)
And not because I believe to any extent in "spiritual authorities" to provide us with it -
Only for the fact that by now no answer came which could give some approach to the global definition sought. It all remained on the all-too-local level of personal feelings -
With the exception of Foundations who, being open for global responsibility, provided us at least a personal definition which leads to new ways on a more global level.
For if the future Ego definition would contain the clear condemnation of "submission and self-denial" which she gave in her personal statement,
It would take off some part of the ground on which the word "Ego" has been abused almost world-wide for demeaning one's own spontaneous impulses and desires, and for controlling / suppressing / misusing others.

We now have at least made up a platform to start.

Perhaps others who read this later will provide more mental "bricks" for this new building. Or, even better, someone who has been working earnestly but in isolation about the same subject, perhaps as a theological author, could read our discussion "by chance" and find some precious missing link in it.

God bless our Reason! Reason, logical Thought, is in no way inferior to other qualities of our minds. It has only been misused too much in the past. This is why some, quite wrongly, identify Reason with Ego...
Foundations (1 stories) (64 posts)
12 years ago (2012-02-15)
Hello NaturalScience and David,

I re-read my ego "defintition" and it is indeed what I have struggled with internally. So, this is what MY ego has been doing to me to prevent ME from being WHO I AM. In essence, to provide a definition for someone else becomes senseless really. So NaturalScience you are absolutely right. It's usability may not be good for you, but for me it makes perfect sense. I needed to hear for myself what it has been doing to hinder me. Am I making sense LOL!? As for the word "demean", well that is exactly what I have been doing to myself since childhood. It means to put one's self down.

And NaturalScience, this is a copy from one of your posts: "Thus your path is true and valid. It is even more so as you seemingly don't belong to any sect or church that gives you a fixed dogma and a fixed language for spiritual matters. You belong to those who prove by mere existence that there is a Beyond and a Soul. Don't worry about the "Ego matter"!"

YOU are the beautiful person that you described above!

Onawingandaprayer (30 posts)
12 years ago (2012-02-15)
Kathleen and NaturalScience

Good morning from the sand-pit, what resonates within both of you is the definition you are both seeking. I have been following this thread with a smile as it can get quite interestinng if it continues!

The religion of the future will not require absolutes, only man requires absolutes, worrying about whether one guru or another is right just doesn"t matter, what resonates within you is all that matters.

Afterall only humans are trying to prove the existance of God.

In heaven is a man whom fought with his ego/inner demons/ what-ever and yet the world knew him as nothing but a man of peace and love. He portrayed that every day of his awakened life.

Definitions were of no consequence to him, it just was not worthy of giving it/them the time of day.

Faith is very much an individual matter and if one wants to cloud it or define it with clear determinations of "legal definitions" then go ahead. Personally I prefer to see what is within each of us and react to that than whether my Ego is appeased or not.

As for the faith and religion of the future, well I think that is being sorted out already and we are seeing the results slowly developing around the world now.

One last question, since it has morphed into a thread about definitions:

NaturalScience could you please DEFINE IN DETAIL EXACTLY WHO, WHAT, WHERE, HOW IS GOD?

"Keep The Blue-side Up"

Dave M.
Foundations (1 stories) (64 posts)
12 years ago (2012-02-14)
Hi NaturalScience,

I am not sure what this song has to do with our conversation about the ego, however it was placed very strongly in my thoughts this morning. It is called "Linda Ronstadt ft. Aaron Neville - I Don't Know Much". I listened to it on YouTube after it was placed in my thoughts and as I listened it felt like my heart was going to beat out of my chest! It had deep meaning for me. Maybe all there is, is pure unconditional love...

NaturalScience (3 stories) (110 posts)
12 years ago (2012-02-13)
Dear Kathleen, I feel elated at your taking my results of rational thinking for something serious.

For there is also a third wrong definition of Ego:

Some say that only if one can go without thoughts, without using one's reason, one is without Ego.

WOW, it would be Paradise on Earth if we did not have to use Reason but only Instinct, and if we could switch Thought off whenever we want it!

But the daily experiences that
- not all things can be solved or decided from pure belly-feeling (I did exercise in this and it does function in many respects but not always!)
That we all think all day long and only very seldom, as a mercy of Nature, have seconds of no-thought (even the most trained Zen people don't have much more no-thought time to boast of;-)) )
Give proof that this too is not the true definition.

See, if you exercise in hearing the inner voice and write this down it will yield a good answer for YOUR individual life. This is good and righteous.

But my aim is bigger.

I want a definition of Ego to be found
Which is usable for what Catholics call "Check of Conscience" by every normal person in every daily situation,
A definition that covers all aspects of life
And which is so useful that it will never and in no aspect of life lead to irrationality, absurdity, or madness.

This definition to my account is still missing - no matter in which book or in which Guru speech you seek it... WORLD WIDE. It is all just partial aspects, or - more often - misunderstandings leading to mad and wrong actions, what you will find.

But such a "world formula about what is Ego and what is Real Self" will be an absolute necessity for the Religion of the Future to come.
This is why I question the WWW world about it here.

For, it is in Spirituality the same as in mundane life: Clear directions will normally lead you to a good result. Unclear ones normally make you end up in a mess. But if the mess is a spiritual one, who will rearrange it?
Foundations (1 stories) (64 posts)
12 years ago (2012-02-13)
Hello NaturalScience!

Wow, now I have a lot of inner questioning to do! Before I write you back I will need to absorb all that you wrote and reflect upon it adequately. When I receive this inner guidance I just write it down quickly as it comes to me. Kind of hard to explain, but the words start to flow from my head and I need to grab a pen and paper to write it down. James had told me to go with the flow of the guidance I received from this inner voice. So I will sit down again when I have a moment (the kids are home today so the house is kind of chaotic at the moment LOL!) and get back to you. But, then again, these are MY interpretations... What it to one is not always to the other...

Talk to you soon,
NaturalScience (3 stories) (110 posts)
12 years ago (2012-02-13)
"The ego judges.
The ego demeans.
The ego takes over thoughts of neutrality
Making one's thoughts turn into those of judgement.
The ego cannot see the light,
It searches for dark,
Keeping a veil between truth and forgiveness.
The ego stems from thoughts of negativity and branches outwards from that point
Into a spiral of self denial and submission."

Hi Kathleen,

Let us analyze the definition above as to its usability.

"The ego judges."
If judgment is here meant as the thought that a person is worth nothing, this sentence is true.
But there is another meaning of the word "judging" which is much more important in daily life than the first named. I mean, to discriminate whether an attitude uttered by another or shown by oneself is OK or not, or if something said by another person is believable or not.
This judging, better call it "Discrimination of Spirits", must NOT be abolished by any true spiritual way, but should rather get sharpened.

Thus: don't call persons evil, but do not shrink from calling attitudes or deeds evil if they are!

"The ego demeans." I don't know the meaning of "to demean". So I got to leave a gap here.

"The ego takes over thoughts of neutrality
Making one's thoughts turn into those of judgement."

I now describe a common situation. You get up in the morning and make coffee for you and your guy, being careful to make it well. He takes a sip and the first thing he says is "it is too strong, don't you know I got that stomach ache?" thus reproaching you of making his ailment worse.
I would answer then "If I had made it too thin this would surely be no better. It's rather difficult to do things in a way that satisfies you, man."
Would this be "an Ego answer" or not?
From your sentence I can't say if yes or no.

"Thoughts of neutrality" could be, in this situation. Only things like "why is he in that bad temper again?"
But I - and I am not a very unusual person - rather think, if reproached in such a way, "why can't I even manage to do such a simple thing as coffee making well enough?"
Is this also a thought of neutrality - or not?

(this 2nd sentence already is hard to use in daily life. How difficult it is to usably define Ego!)

NB I don't automatically stamp others with words as "you got a bad temper" -
I learnt this "method of self defense" during last years, in situations as this one above,
Because whenever I told my guy in these situations what I really thought, like
"how come that you think me unable to even make a good coffee - every Illiterate can do this, so do you really think me who has done University so inept that I cannot?"
He scolded or taunted at me instead of giving a reasonable answer.

"the ego cannot see the light but searches for dark."

We very often can't see light, this is not our fault. Let us leave this out of analysis.
(well, there is many people who scold others because they are sad at the moment and thus can 't see the light... They tell 'em "gotta think more positive" - as if those people COULD think more positive, which most of the time is not the case. Such reactions of surroundings to sadness lead only to hypocrisy, and they make the sadness worse... Criticizing people for being sad is never spiritual!)

There also is a kind of "searching for dark" which stems from cautiousness, one tries to find out about the possible risks of an action, or in a situation.

If every kind of "searching for dark", also the cautious kind, were "ego", cautiousness would be forbidden for spiritual persons. This can't be true. It would mean "spirituality leads to stupidity".

Let us use the coffee example again.
When you made the coffee you have been cautious not to take too LITTLE coffee-powder,
For if you make too thin a coffee for the guy you love he could think and say "ain't I worth you a proper coffee, why do you serve me this brown water?" and he would be right with it!
And now he says it was too MUCH coffee-powder!
Thus the very fact that you were cautious not to make the coffee too thin led you into a trap of reproach, see above -
Although you did the coffee exatly this way for love of your man, or at least for the obvious duty of not giving "colored water" to your man...
Now, was it Ego that you were cautious not to make the coffee too thin? Was your man's reproach, thus, a punishment for having Ego?
Or is it Ego that the reproach of harming your man 's stomach gives a pain to your heart?
Or would it in such a situation be egoless and the optimum way of acting to - make just a colored water for such a miserably ill-humoured Kerl (loool) ?
I think all this is not the case.

Thus, cautiousness can't be meant with "Searching the Dark"... What then is meant with it?

Last sentence contains something absolutely new to me and if it is true it would turn my image of what is Ego upside down.

You put
"self denial and submission"
Into the Ego frame.
The established religions, however, USE and ADVOCATE self denial and submission to ABOLISH Ego
- or at least they affirm that their strange love of self-denial and submission has this reason and not the opposite (loool).
This is something YOU gotta explain.
Let's go on again when you did.
Foundations (1 stories) (64 posts)
12 years ago (2012-02-11)
Hello NaturalScience,

You asked for a definition of ego... I think that David has provided us with a wonderful analysis of what the ego is. I did however ask within for the answer, and this is what I heard "The ego judges. The ego demeans. The ego takes over thoughts of neutrality making one's thoughts turn into those of judgement. The ego cannot see the light, it searches for dark, keeping a veil between truth and forgiveness. The ego stems from thoughts of negativity and branches outwards from that point into a spiral of self denial and submission."

I hope that this helps, and please feel free to comment! I love reading your input!

Onawingandaprayer (30 posts)
12 years ago (2012-02-11)

I see and love your viewpoint as well, be not afriad to feel good about yourself, be not afraid to think a little extra cash would help out when you are down, remember the universe will always provide!

I am sure there are some who visit here regularily who can give a better accounting of the ego than we have done, however in the end it is our individual interpretation of what it is that really counts.

A mutual friend in heaven would be proud...

David M.
NaturalScience (3 stories) (110 posts)
12 years ago (2012-02-11)
Thank you Onawingandaprayer. You helped me much. See, your definition is very different from what I heard or read from others, and yours is usable while the other ones definitely were not.
I now tell you and the public what I mean, to help others eliminate similar errors.
For a long time I have been living according to rules like "you must not say or think anything good of yourself for this could be seen by God as haughtiness and this is a sin" and "the Saints all thought of themselves that they were sinners of worst category, thus a Christian should think as badly of him/herself too." Those wrong ideas ware part of the Catholic thought pattern of last centuries, that's how I adopted them. I followed them for love of God and faith in that Church to know right from wrong.

But I had to experience that those ideas lead to a grossly wrong self-image which takes away not only the adequate courage for daily life but even the adequate orientation about what is right and what is wrong. With such a self-image one cannot act rightly!

To say it clearly, the Saints must have had a better and more adequate image of themselves than what is told about it by the Church; if they really had had such wrong ideas as told before, they would have gone mad or committed suicide. Probably they said such I-am-a-sinner things only to show to the official Church that they were no "heretics"...

See, and this bad self-image is what I thought to be the opposite of "ego".

Others say that all things of wich we think "I am that" and all things of which we think "I need that" or "I cannot live with that" are Ego and are to be eliminated to see the Truth. But this would mean exactly what I said about egolessness before: that it would be possible as a constant state in Heaven only, and that it could be experienced before death in absolutely exceptional states of mind (deep trance states) only. This ego definition leads to a morbid inner self-annihilation, not to a good life.

Back to your definition. You call the impulses of self-protection, fear and anger, "ego" and thus you probably think one should neglect them. I rather think one should defend oneself, but not in the way of hating and pursuing persons but by reasonably trying to eliminate error i.e. By discussion. If God made me, He made also the "buttons of alarm" which we know as fear and anger. Jesus knew fear, even to the point of sweating blood, as you know. He also knew anger, even to the point of rage; when He saw the traders in the Temple He took a rope, made it into a whip and chased them out, shouting "You are making a robber's hole out of the House of Prayer!"

Thus even your definition may not hit the exact mark. Perhaps the difference between someone having "too much Ego" and someone whose Ego has submitted itself to the leadership of God is whether he or she wishes for everybody the same happiness which he or she wishes for him/herself. I.e. Those who show Envy, still are misled by Ego. Someone who hates another one just because this other person has won in lottery surely is on the wrong path.
But it is not Ego of you to think "I could use more money too" at hearing "this other one has won in lottery" if your money is tight - it is just common sense.
The same it is with reproaches. I was taught to believe the reproaches against me, at first hand, and to show by good actions that they are wrong, afterwards. This was called self-betterment. If I defended meself against reproaches I was called "obstinate".
But if one is taught good from bad this way, one comes to believe a whole bunch of wrong reproaches,
and - even worse -
One comes to expect that the world is there to see that one is bettering oneself and to confirm it.
And this is is an absolutely wrong expectation; the others got their own cares and issues, and most of the time don't even see one is striving to become abetter person, and thus of course they won't confirm any success in this respect.
But people will keep saying reproachful things to you, most of the time without real meaning, only to let out a negative mood or for other low reasons - many people, as you know, hardly ever talk reasonably, the guy who called you a Christian pig surely was of this kind.
Consequently if one keeps with this belief, one ends up in thinking that the strive for self-betterment has not succeeded and that everything is lost!

This is why I insisted on a correct Ego definition.

For if one uses a wrong definition of this part of human nature, or a wrong way of avoiding "egoful" actions, the whole right-from-wrong pattern gets distorted.
Onawingandaprayer (30 posts)
12 years ago (2012-02-11)

"...Define Ego..."

Wow, now that is a tall order, kind of like saying "Show me God" well maybe not that significant but I think you see me point.

I cannot say what ego is or even define it, yet I will try.

To me ego is that voice within that tries to protect us from "the big, bad world" around us. It yells at us to react when we have been slighted, when someone has dissed us for some reason or achieves a higher socila standing than us.

So we must tear down that individual, lash out in anger at the one who slighted us or put up a stone wall against another who has disimilar beliefs than ourselves, where I live this is apart of life!

So all I can say is that I choose not to let that inner feeling take hold, now-a-days a find myself showing feelings of happiness for the guy who just won millions in the lottery instead of envy. I can see the pity in the guy who calls me a christian pig. I can see the pain in the face of one who has to brags about all he owns or what his social position is in life (by the way social standing is very important to the Middle Eastern culture).

Instead of reacting with fear (fear of God is a big one, fear of Death probably next), reacting with anger, I know within that these are actions my ego would like me to do or have. Sorry it does not rule me, instead I just smile and say "no"

When you look at life from an expanded awareness the sensation and actions of the ego become secondary, become muted and sublime. The sensations and awareness of the Holy Spirit are a much more powerful and honest force within you (and this is from personal experience, not what a friend read in his books).

Now is it wrong to love ones self, absolutly not, that is the basis of "brotherly love" for how can you love another without first loving yourself.

When you strut around the town shouting "look at me and see how great and magnificent I am" now that is being a little egotistical.

The whole point is that you know within yourself how wonderful a person you are, your "ego" will say your are not worthy yet in reality you are created by God so how can you judge yourself as being unworthy when only God would create such a beautiful entity.

Ask yourself the question "what is the meaning of MY CUP RUNNETH OVER..."

It has everything to do with the love we have within and how that is transferred to others. It has nothing to do with egotism or egoism, it is a statement of self and love alone.

The statement "I am that I am" is not about an egotistical saying, it is about an expanded awareness of everything, and no it is not just God that made that statement, try it yourself and see the reaction of your ego, I was quite shocked at the negative reaction to this that came from my brain-box.

"Keep the blue-side up"

elschofar (5 posts)
12 years ago (2012-02-08)
Dear Natural Science, I have always had this intuition that one science would unfoundely prove God's existence. I suggest some combined reading for cross referencing and to make the experience more meaningful: Gematria (Biblical Mathematics), Prophetic Art (michael Angelo being an antomist reportedly discovered by a neuroscientist), Holy Spirt teachings (just google there's tons of stuff let your intuition guide you) and most importantly THE BIBLE as a scientifically coded journal of Man's creation and God's divinity!
I have a question: how is it that when scientists tried to find the smallest particle in existence they almost destroyed the world with the A-bomb?
Maybe 2 questions: how is it we believe in 1s and 0s and wireless signals yet we deny God as real- Now if GOD is real There must exist meassages from GOd to Man - The Bible needs to be read on a daily basis and all the question you have will suddenly start receiving answers. God must have an amazing plan for you but He is waiting for you to invite Him into your life. God bless, enjoy the rerading.
NaturalScience (3 stories) (110 posts)
12 years ago (2012-02-08)
Perhaps, Onawingandaprayer, it is just a problem of definition of "ego".

If one defines ego as all kinds of feelings of "I am right" or "I am good" or puts even the feeling of a personal identity into the frame of Ego, i.e. If the definition reads "either you are in the Ego realm or you are like a nothing-and-nobody existence" -then my warning against the strive for Egolessness is correct, see?

I've been seeking a CORRECT i.e. USABLE definition of Ego for more than twenty years, unsuccessfully. That's why I came to reject the "Ego issue" as a sham issue, product of ideological misconstructions.

All definitions of Ego I found by now make one doubt one's own purity whenever one dares think something good of oneself.

But how can one distinguish good from bad if one is not allowed to see and admit "I am good now" or "I have done something good now",
And what will motivate you to do good if it is forbidden to you to be to any extent proud of the good you have done, forbidden to be happy about yourself having been good?

Some even define Ego as "all that you are" and this would mean you can be spiritually pure and OK, i.e. Egoless, only when dead.

This surely is not the right definition of Ego. But the more moderate definitions too lack usability, and easily become a tool of self-sabotage, of self-deprecation. And this shows they too must be somewhat incorrect. Spirituality must help one in real life, and where it does the opposite, something's wrong.

So tell me, and us all, what is the delusional Ego, and what is the Real Self which we must cherish and about which we are allowed to be happy?
Onawingandaprayer (30 posts)
12 years ago (2012-02-07)
Natural Science

I was going to add more than I did on my last comment, but I decided I had better just calm down a bit and let it rest for 24 hours.

I have to wonder about the statement that people who are not governed by their egos are nothing on earth and merely slaves to others if they don't have a strong ego.

Could you please enlighten me as to the difference between having a strong ego and being very much AWARE of who one is in the universe.

It seems to me that any individual whom is an awakened soul, begins to have feelings of superiority at first. When those feelings wear off and one begins to relaize what is within themselves (God, Holy Spirit, etc.), it readily becomes apparent that they are more than the ego says they are and that they are capable of many things here on earth.

A friend showed me there is no such thing as evil, except what we show in our hearts and minds. Once I figured that out for myself I no longer feel offended by the words of another, the actions of another, that person can be whatever or whoever they want and I really don't mind at all, bless them all the more for being who they think they are.

Perhaps I have missed the whole theme of the conversation, but to say we are usleless and weak without a strong ego shows a lack of awareness of the greater universal truths.

I have learned a lot in a short period about our roles in the universe and about expanding my awareness, perhaps it was the teacher, perhaps it was always within me, but I know that what once would have sent me over the edge as it were, because my brain felt I had been slighted, now I see nothing but the joy that is life and my ego can't do a damn thing about it.

I have to remember to thank my teacher when the day comes and we are re-united.

Keep The Blue Side Up

Dave Muldoon
Onawingandaprayer (30 posts)
12 years ago (2012-02-06)
"...Without an Ego one can sing Hallelujah in Heaven but do nothing useful on Earth. A human being completely devoid of an Ego but living on Earth as it is to-day would become only a weak-willed groupie or slave of the first strong-willed Ego, human or even demoniacal, meeting with him/ her..."

Hmmm...interesting comment


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